A number of key points there. I like the phrase 'dig deep'. The challenge is that digging deep takes time. Are we prepared to work on projects that may not be as 'instant' as we'd like? Also, how about songs that take us on a journey, that tell an epic story, that confer a blessing on one another, or simply declare great biblical truths? I wonder if we may have sung enough 'at' God, and perhaps it is time to change the angle a little? Then get those new beats going!

We are truly made in our fathers image and thus our creative nature is limitless... bound only by our ability to venture outside the lines. For years the cry from the heart of the prophetic has been for new songs, new sounds, new beats. I would like to add to that cry with a call to writers to dig deep and write songs that express the heart of man and the heart of God in words that people have not been able to form for themselves.this will happen as we increase our time in front of the audience of One! It is there that we hear the multicultural sounds that have their origin around the throne.these are exciting times. I believe the dissatisfaction so many of us feel has been birthed by the Spirit of God for change.many of you are the carriers of the new sound we all long for.

That's so true. I always thought that so-called 'New Testament' worship was non-hierarchical, for example, one has a psalm, another has a spiritual song, etc. That's what attracted me first to the Brethren in my early days - we didn't even have a musician on a Sunday morning and sang unaccompanied! Then I was drawn to the charismatic movement because it had a similar approach, but using just a couple of musicians in a modest way. But the house churches grew and bought bigger sound systems than Pink Floyd! So in effect, worship leaders became ordained by the Bishop of Watts. When we have people round at our house, I might get the guitar out, some percussion instruments and stuff, and we have a session. The guitar gets passed around. Someone might sing U2's 'Beautiful Day' and then I'll sacrifice a beautiful ballad on the altar of attempt. But it's all friendship and worship.

Your last phrase summed it up well. Let's all bring a contribution, when we gather together. I have been using the phrase - 'worship facilitator' - instead of worship leader. (Though I am sure there is a better word to use). As a worship facilitator, I simply want to come to the meeting with a 'lighted match' that I can throw on the petrol/gasoline of an expectant congregation.

Bring it on! I am already blessed by all these participants in one of the greatest debates we could ever have: how do we worship God in the midst of this weird and wonderful world? The truths will be told by the people at the coal-face, those working at the grassroots - who have to face congregations week after week and make sure their instruments are tuned and their voices aren't too cracked, and who need grace to respond to the unhelpful comments that arise from disgruntled worshippers who preferred that other tune to a particular hymn, or who felt the drummer hit the skins too hard. Meanwhile, the angels are dancing to our out-of-tune guitars and flat voices, while our church's 'panel of judges' are tut-tutting in the wings! God, help us all to just marinate in this pot of praise!

Maybe we should start another forum which encourages people to share their favourite bits of liturgy and prayers..............

I agree. But sometimes we have to wander away from home to find our true selves. So lock up those contemporary worship songbooks and dust off the ancient liturgy and see what happens. The Spirit was fresh on those early writers. The gospel was young. New wine is good, but give me old wine that's matured and fortified any day!

Hi Everyone
What an interesting conversation! Hope you don't mind me adding a few of my thoughts.
Well, I'm an acoustic guitar playing r & b, gospel, worship leader and loving every minute of it. I love playing Matt Redman songs right through to the seriously heavy sounds of old time gospel. The more I lead worship, the more I'm convinced that God didn't create any of us to fit into a box, he created us to be ourselves.
I often wonder what the angels sing from day to day and whether they seek different ways to express their thanks and adoration, bet they do!
I deliberately listen to music from different cultures. My background is pentecostal but I work in an anglican environment (Coventry Cathedral). I had no idea about liturgy etc but guess what? Now, when I lead worship, I often include some of the beautiful prayers from prayer books, and am finding a deep sense of God's presence through liturgy-who'd have thought that?
For all those budding worship leaders and musos who want to burst out and be themselves, go for it, the sky's the limit!!
San

I think we are almost being pushed into the process. We don't have much choice. We have to produce a worship cocktail that satisfies the thirst of a Rainbow God who made a multi-coloured world. It's happened already, to some extent. While trying to learn to play the fiddle (!), I discovered there is at least one polka within Irish music. I don't think anyone knows how it got there. Maybe God did it, to prove a point. The roots of American folk music are in old Irish and Scottish melodies. A famous cowboy song, 'The Streets Of Laredo', is actually an Irish song called 'The Unfortunate Rake'. So, you see, the tracks of history run before us. We have to get back to weaving the different strands to get a stronger cord. Sorry about the pun.

Learning different cultural perspectives, especially in the context of worship, is a wonderful blessing! For members of local churches whose "cultural cross sections" are not as interesting as others, time can be a real hinderence to exploring. Praise God, however, that in Christ Jesus we have all of eternity to explore different ways to express our thanks and praise and adoration of Him, our Creator-Redeemer! It all starts here and now! And while we are now more limited than we will be in the new heavens and earth, we can be mindful that "godliness with contentment is great gain"!

Well said my friend... Well said! Perhaps you should consider writing as a profession;)

Many of us - me included - have been part of the machinery that has promoted the 'Nash-Brit' worship sound. For a time it worked. Production values were raised. People worked harder at their craft. A professionalism was applied to church bands. But perhaps a new season has begun. Yes, let's capture the sound of heaven. I've heard it in the dry, dusty Texan air, and I've heard it on the streets of the Bogside in Derry, Northern Ireland. Let's wear our musical hearts on our sleeves, with a healthy cynicism towards current trends and fashions. There are hearts and minds to win!

It sounds like the chance to spread out musically is amazing. We are our only limitation in that respect. As far as worship is concerned it is not as much about style as we think.Dave Matthews was once asked where he got his unique sound. He said you would have to blame it on the last 40 years of music. All our styles are a melting pot of cultures anyway.the key is not so much what attracts people but what attracts the presence of God. No matter the culture everyone responds to the spirit dance as. C.S. Lewis puts it.of course we don't want to become self indulgant but our work load should be balanced with the weightier side searching for the music of our heavenly culture. The style of heaven is as diverse as our uniqueness. By the way... The Anglo American worship is still trying to duplicate Matt Martin and Edge. Not much America in that. I am still convinced the best worship music comes from Britain.blessings ya'll

...in addition, not far from you guys, Moya Brennan has also used other cultural sounds in her Irish music - both as a solo artist and with Clannad.

Well, one of the theories behind the origin of the Celts is that they came from the East. A friend of mine sent me some music from Singapore, and it sounded just like some wee Irish tune, with pipes and fiddly kind of string instruments. Very captivating. Then there is, of course, the Afro-Celt Sound System who mix African and Irish rhythms, Hevia who plays Spanish bagpipes with an eastern flavour, Loreena Mckennitt who blends Celtic and eastern sounds. There are loads more examples of Celtic fusions with other cultures. It really works. It's a much more intoxicating and uplifting alternative to soft-rock worship! Rock and roll is dead, and we don't care!

We've a lovely mix in our church between about half Irish and the other half a mix of African nations (many different ones) and Polish. And a few from other nations - China, India, Lithuania, etc. It's a fabulous cultural mix of people and expressions. Although the worship is still quite "Irish" in its form, we're working on adapting it to embrace these other culture's languages and sounds in music. Quite the challenge with that many cultures represented! But it's a good thing to aim for - every nation, tribe and tongue will be together as one worshipping in heaven... we should practice here on earth!!

Good point. I guess I suffer from the English condition of putting down my culture and language. I see the limitations of my own 'ethnos'. You must excuse me for that! But it has made me reach out to catch the heart of other cultures, in a bid to make up for the shortcomings of my own. Within our own islands, we have the beauty and depth of the Welsh and Gaelic languages. We English need to recapture something of that, if we are to be complete again in our culture. The big problem is that the music world is dominated by a heavily manufactured Anglo-American pop sound. It's hard to break away from that. If you do, your work ends up in the 'world music' section of the CD store. But God set us in nations, and we need to enjoy each other's national cultures.

Okay, but what about : Surrender, dedication, commitment...we have "Hingabe"! And what you see as limited is in my eyes often precise. Depends on the point of view!
Of course german has its own beauty and every nation should sing to the Lord in their language, but I like worshiping in other languages, we once did majesty in five different ways! And it was awesome. In the moment I´m listening to hebrew worship and it sounds great, perhaps because it´s where the "roots" of all worship is.

Well done, Sonah. But where you can, sing in your own language. English is extremely limited in its expression. We only have one word for love! So when we use other words, just for a change, then it becomes clumsy. For example, 'intimacy' in English is a word usually associated with sex. That isn't a good word for a worship song. If we use 'fear', then that means we are scared of God. If we use 'respect', that sounds like street-talk. So we are really stuck!

Good point Clive...
We did this once, we are not allowed to play any english songs because of the elder. It´s of course important that everyone know what the lyrics mean. But there are some songs which are ( in my eyes) bad translated, so I just decided to sing them in english and explain a little what there meaning is. And voilá most people didn´t feel offended by it.
So much about permission and forgiveness ;-)

I don't know what people feel about this approach, but a wise person once said to me, 'It is easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission'. Could that apply in pioneering situations like this one?

So glad the chat and input from others has encouraged and helped you a bit Sonah. I really feel for you, and will be praying for you for a resolution and an improved situation in time.

I really like what Rohn said about the very important principal of "an audience of One". Just making a decision to worship God in public with all of your heart, even if you're the only one (or only a small few of you), and letting people see your passion and desire to be close to Jesus will stir the desire within some of those who watch, one way or another. Over the years, I have found myself leading with unresponsive, lukewarm congregations time and again, and understand completely the frustration and upset that can cause a passionate worship leader.

I agree with the suggestion of putting on an extra service dedicated to worship and waiting on God, etc for those who are hungry for more of God and who love to worship Him. I have found this to be a very beneficial way of moving forward in the midst of a congregation who mostly don't have the passion you might have. It attracts those of the congregation who are hungry for God's presence (there are some, even if in a minority) and that desire will grow as people linger in His presence and meet with Him. If you can manage to turn those Friday nights into a time of waiting on God - even between songs to take some time to hear Him and speak out what You think He is saying - it may encourage those who come to get past the "performance" trap that can exist and bring them into the deeper places in God.

If the Friday meetings don’t work, look at your church structure. Do you have cell groups? Mid week groups? A prayer group before Sunday service? Try to bring worship into any of these forums if you can, and bring those of your worship team who are equally hungry to worship the Lord as you are. A separate forum, if not “permitted” on Sundays will give you a way to bring true worship into people’s lives. Even if none of these work out because of leadership, you can always invite those who love to worship over to your home to worship on a regular basis, and start to generate a hunger among God’s people where you can pick the songs and really linger in the presence of God without being rushed into something else.

Can you speak to your pastor/leader perhaps, to find out his heart for worship and express yours to him? Even an honest chat to let him know you are desirous for change in the way worship is approached or perceived in the church may help him understand where you are coming from and may help bring a change. Above all, the best thing to do is pray for the leadership that are treating the worship as performance. The Holy Spirit is the only one who can truly bring revelation and conviction of when we are doing something wrong. We are unfortunately all guilty, even us worship leaders at times, of getting stagnant in some way and allowing complacency to creep in over time. Keep loving your leaders, keep submitted to the leadership (that is where God’s blessing is), pray for them, and ask the Holy Spirit for creative ways and the right words to encourage true worship into your church.

No matter what the outcome, keep fuelling the fire of worshipping God in your own life. Have worship music in your home, in your car, etc. Encourage yourself in the Lord even when nobody else will encourage you (1 Samuel 30:6) and get around those who worship the Lord and have times of worship together.
Hopefully some of this will help and/or give you some creative ideas of what you can do to generate hunger in the congregation. God bless you and give you strength and hope to keep going.

I am so pleased that you feel encouraged. This is a good debating chamber for those of us who are concerned about the future direction of church-based worship. I would encourage you to keep experimenting with different approaches. Grab those worship nights and push the boat out! One of the most popular acts at the Glastonbury Festival this year was a Spanish musician who mixed different world styles together. It just shows that even the wider music community is becoming tired with the same old stuff.

Thank you for your prayers and understanding.
It´s good to hear ( read) some encouraging words...
Sometimes it feels like things are moving, but some sunday services feel like taking a part in a show.
It´s not us who decide how many songs are played or where the "straight forward" or the "calm" ones are. It appeares just as an entertaining part between preaching and supper!
But they asked us if we would like to do a worship service on friday nights, every second month. We decided to play there with our "real" band ( pop-rock-praise for youth services) and not with our "normal sunday team", to be the example people ( and our leadership) might need.
I so hope that God will set desire in all our hearts to worship him more.
PS: Even getting in contact with you and this site today relieved my heart. Thank you Jesus!

My heart goes out to all those worship leaders faced with the same situation as SONAH. It is very frustrating and depressing at times. The one thing that caught my eye was what you said about your guitarist and percussionist. It seems that you have a team of three (counting yourself) in unity. I am sure there are those out there that would say "I was I had two others who felt as I do". The natural tendency is to focus on who doesn't respond rather than the ones who do. I have been in that place where i was the ONLY one serious about worship. At that point you play to an audience of ONE. Find those in the crowd that respond and consider them kindred spirits as you worship your Father in joy. Call your rehearsals (the three of you) invite them all but plan as if you are the only ones. Be kind to the others. Never snub or isolate them. Just move forward. If you focus on the non participants you run the risk of becoming cynical and bitter thus elliminating yourselves from the joy of worship. If the leadership is not behind you in this then that is another discussion. Bottom line... don't wait for others to get on board before you move on. I will be praying for you. Blessings.

That's quite a big problem. But people learn best from example. That's a scientific fact. The human brain is ready to learn when it can see something it can copy. So perhaps the best way forward is for you to start worshipping anyway. That might mean calling together those who really want to worship in this way, and doing it - whether that is in your main church service or in a smaller setting like a housegroup/homegroup/cell. There might be a number of people who simply do not like guitars. There are people who do not like too much singing! So try to find some other way - or a mixture of approaches. There is no biblical command to use guitars. We have to keep being creative.

While I was reading all your comments, I really was amazed on your luxery problems...
I am a young worship leader in a group of five people. We shift with another group every second sunday, and guess what. No one is caring for the worship.
In my team both of the singers are late, but I have no "backup". I would also sing on my own, but as an unwritten rule there have to be three singers, one guitar, one piano and occassionall an cajon.
Do you know how it feels to come with a heart ready for worhip and find a church who thinks of it rather as an anoying feature than as an opportunity to praise our Lord?
Me and our guitarist aswell as our percussuionist really wanted changes and we took our chances and talked to the other members, but they rejected our ideas. They neither wanted to practise more often, nor to quit the team. Now it´s us who think of quitting it all.
So, what is it I can do?

Each successive movement thinks it is being more 'radical' and more 'New Testament' than the previous one. I have often found myself in such movements - most recently the charismatic wing of the church. In our drive to be 'non-liturgical', we have actually invented our own liturgy (contemporary worship songs plus open prayer and prophetic utterance). In our drive to practise the 'priesthood of all believers', we have actually invented our own priesthood (worship leaders, housegroup leaders and pastors). And so as the 'charismatic movement', we find ourselves at a tricky point in our history. We are all dressed up in our servant's apparel, and ready to go. But where? If we should be acting as heirs, like you say, then we should be claiming our inheritance. The legacy is a formidable one. I think of people like William Wilberforce and Saint Patrick. When they acted as heirs and stood up to stake their claim, they changed entire nations. And they didn't wait around asking for permission. Their passion was their permission. I hope I can rise to the same level, and plumb the same depths.

I totally agree with all you have said Clive. The point is not being a servant. It is who we serve that is the core issue. Jesus was a servant but not of man. That is why He said " do everything as unto the Lord". This was the advice given to earthly slaves. Here is the problem. Most churches (unfortunately) are still set up as a king/monarchy system. It doesn't mean someone is not supposed to be in charge and in authority. But the issue is as ancient as lucifer. All under-shepherds, watchmen, ok... pastors, are in the same position as lucifer before the boot. We are to reflect the glory of God. People have always wanted a king. God never wanted a king in Israel. His plan was for judges and watchmen. people will place pressure on leaders to be the very person they are reflecting. We as worship leaders/ pastors must never let people put us in that position to recieve that glory. If you are demanding a servant mentality without explanation, we are in dangerous waters. As you well know the system itself is inherantly flawed since Constantine. It is difficult for people to grasp an hier acting like a servant. it is circular thinking in a linear world. The last shall be first. You die to live. You give to recieve. it is backwards to the natural mind. This is the key. When Christ was in the dessert. The temptation was not to turn bread from stone etc. It was to get Jesus to act out of His own authority and mind. That is why Jesus said : I only do what I see my Father do and i only say what I hear my Father say. Simple huh? We have One King, One Lord, One Shepherd. Serve? Yes. Serve God as an heir. Serving people as unto the Lord will be the natural response with no strife or elbowing for position. Love ya, bro

Adopting the attitude of a servant has its risks and rewards. Some people feel it's an invitation to exert control over you, and treat you like a doormat. Sadly, that will happen in the church context. Others feel safe with you, because they realise you are not a threat, and that you are there to help, to co-operate. Although it is a huge gamble, I feel 'the servant way' is the best option - it's so counter-cultural in a world that runs on style, not substance. However, we have great standing as human creatures made in the Father's image, and now being re-made in Christ's image (who adopted the attitude of a servant, surrendering control). This grows within us, an inner strength and dignity that doesn't have to be displayed or bragged about. If it's real, then others should see it in us. Having said that, Rohn, your words have given me a few things to think about, too!

I have been amazed at the insistant mantra of "we are servants".. "we are servants"... "we are servants." Jesus said quite plainly "I no longer call you servants but friends." The law produced servants and the cross produced heirs. The only proper posture for a new covenant child of God is to serve out of a postion of authority. The Romans required by law that any person must be forced to serve by carrying anything for that soldier for a mile. Jesus said go past the servant mentality by choosing to go the second mile. Why? Because at that point you become the authority and the willing participant by giving "by choice" to an opressor, and thus a position of authority. The first mile was servanthood. The second mile was that of an overcoming heir of the riches of all heaven. 1 Corinthians 7:23 says "You were bought with a price, don't be the servants of men." Forced servanthood in our music teams is all about control. I have already heard the words spoken "they are not being a servant" which was probably said to the problem child who didn't tow the line properly. An heir of the family business will spend much more time and commitment to the team than the servant mentality which will only go the first mile by obligation. Even though most "servant" musicians aren't paid it still produces a "first mile" employee mentality. Ownership creates leaders who willingly serve. Even the world has pick up on this by changing business terminology from "employees" to "partners and associates" with stock and ownership. Make your decisions based on the authority of a heir instead of the job discription of a person lording over servants. The gamble is that you just might seemingly loose some control. The reward is you just might find a new depth in worship from sons and daughters who "step up" and join the family business. At this point you will be able to spot the one with an agenda rather than the wonder where the strife is coming from.

Thanks for sharing your situation with us, and allowing us to debate around this pastoral challenge. Through this one situation, you have touched on so many issues that are worth looking at in themselves, and have been discussed at various points in church history - such as the whole idea of a 'platform', where certain people can minister and others can't (the altar); paid staff and volunteers (the clergy and the lay workers); a disciplined approach to worship; etc etc. I hope you and your worshipping community enter a new depth of praise, and meanwhile - let's get cracking on some of these other debates!

I agree with Sarah, the platform is a "protected" place, and yes, being part of the ministry team has got nothing to do with volunteer or paid posts, it's a "servant" attitude that is required.

I have since spoken to the person involved and I have asked her to step down from the worship team and wait for some time till she can get her priorities straightened out. Even after I asked her to step down I have noticed she still does not come to the worship services on time, in fact she always turns up 15 - 30 minutes late. So I feel this is a problem she has to sit down and ask the Lord to help her, because I have spoken to her and encouraged her to put God and the things of God on her priority list.

We are still praying for this weak one that the Lord will help her see what He has in store for her and the calling that He has called her to.

Thanks everyone, your insights have really helped me in a great way.

Blessings

I like Sarah's thoughts on the importance of examining our motives for leading worship - whether we're paid, or volunteers. Ideally, it seems to me, our worship should simply be an expression of our gratitude for who God is, for everything He has done, is doing, and has promised to do, discerning all things through the light of Scripture, to which God has gracefully opened our hearts and minds by His Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus.

As far as consistently offering our best sacrifice of praise, I've heard good advice that we should be “growth oriented" more than "goal oriented." When I set unrealistic goals for myself and our worship team, frustration and burnout can result. Instead, I need to remind myself to assess the growth we experience as we faithfully work together to develop our God given skills and abilities, for God's glory, encouraging one another along the way.

No one gets paid for worshipping. However some get paid for there laedership expertise in organizing musical teams ( both paid and volunteer), training young musicians, leading both on and off the plarform, etc. a workman is worthy of his hire. The non-paid issue is a matter of giving on the part of the volunteer and the choice of that person. Being condescended to because someone wants to be paid for their life training is what the Bible calls coercion and we are told specifically not to give where there is that kind of pressure or minipulation. If the pressure of required servanthood is forced on them you will find what the rest of the world is finding out. There are more leaving church than coming. If you rule with an iron hand then you won't have a problem much longer... you will be alone on the platform. If you want their willing participation then take a bit of humble wisdom from some who have been where you are and understand your frustration. like Noel said .... enter their worlds and love them no matter what. After all, real worship leading happens outside the walls.

In contemporary churches there are now paid-up workers and volunteer workers. That's just how it is. Some churches may be able to pay musicians and singers to devote their time and energy to developing that part of congregational life. Most other churches rely on an army of people who are ready and willing to give chunks of time and energy here and there, in between their day jobs and home lives. Of course, everyone should be committed to their role, whether paid or not. And everyone should be servants. But there should be at least some understanding that, if you don't have a salaried church job, then there will be times when you will be less available for music practices and all the rest of it. The boss might want you to work late. You might have a Monday deadline that means you have to work on Sunday. The wife might be ill. The kids might have all broken out in red dots. Then you have to remember they are volunteers.

I disagree! we and they are not volunteers. I dont think I have ever thought of myself as a volunteer but a 'servant' I am not trying to be clever guys and I am not trying to be awkward but I honestly think if people think of themselves as 'volunteers' then they are getting it wrong from the start, what do you wise ones think?

By the way do you guys get paid for worshipping?

A few thoughts...

We are truly serving the church and serving God in being involved, as well as serving each other. Do you truly know the heart of the person? Noel’s suggestion of taking them out for coffee will reveal a lot of where their heart is at. Remember that they are a volunteer who (hopefully) wants to serve God in this way. A situation like someone who has had a baby is perhaps more exceptional, and requires flexibility – maybe not being on the rota as often as others so as not put pressure to her, while still accommodating her?

In the past I have had to make what some would call "harsh" decisions over team members for the sake of the overall team, where the skill was there but the heart was wrong. I have learnt that the platform needs to be "protected". We cannot let anyone with talent just get up onto the platform and lead worship (all team members lead worship by example). I have found this difficult over the years, being a bit of a perfectionist by nature myself, and do like things to be musically of a high standard, but ultimately it is about the heart; Why are we doing what we do? Is it truly to please God? Do we like being heard, because we are good at what we do? Do I want to truly honour God with my talent, all of which came from Him in the first place? I can be excellent in my timekeeping, my skill and my commitment to team but in my heart have a bad attitude, that is not what God requires me to have in order to serve.

Encouraging people is indeed important. So is motivating and challenging them, and we should do both. I think we do need to constantly remind our team of the scriptures and principles in the Word that show us how God wants us to serve; that He requires us to serve Him with gladness, with excellence, with skill, with commitment, with an attitude of love, gratitude and transparency before Him. After all we are doing this for Him (we are all volunteers, as rightly mentioned below) and for nobody else. Our desire to worship, and to serve Him in worship, should be a response to the revelation of who Jesus is, the love He has shown to us and the love and gratitude we have for Him, not out of any other desire.

I would definitely encourage as much as possible, but also by life example I would try to show David's commitment that also challenges, "I will not offer to God that which costs me nothing" (1 Chronicles 21). If this attitude is shown in your own life and worship leading, it will challenge and motivate those on the team to want to please God by serving Him with excellence and commitment, because it’s what He asks of us, and because it’s what He deserves, not just because the worship leader says so.

Yes, one has to remember that one is dealing with volunteers. That is a good point. But perhaps when musicians and singers become lazy at their craft, it's time to consider changing the band. Some people develop an air of coolness about them, and then they become no use at all. Holiness doesn't equal hipness. It's about serving the congregation. At the end of the day, we are all altar boys and girls, carrying the lamp. That is all. If I was back online as a member of a worship band, I would love to be there, plotting ways in which to create icons of sound to help people gather round the presence. I don't understand why people get lazy, unless they feel a scruffy old church hall is beneath them. Let's throw lots of encouragement at the committed singers, musicians, sound and light people, computer boffins, readers, poets and dreamers.

Hey Dennis, every situation is as different as the people envolved. A lot has to do with the leadership style in the church, your personality, etc. I will have to agree with you totally on this issue though. If people develop a habit of laziness it is very hard to break. Once they understand the honor and the joy of what they are actually doing it changes perspective. It just takes a few musicians that are "fired up" to challenge the fence walkers. If it is truly hindering the worship from reaching its full potential then measures must be taken. Just remember two things. 1. you are dealing with volunteers. 2. It's not a discipline problem but a motivational problem. I hope this helps you some. These are important issues. Blessings!

I used to treat my worship team just like the real world, if they didn't turn up on time they didn't play, simple as! Sounds harsh doesn't it! But what this did was just get rid of he LAZY people who were there to either look or feel good about being at the front.

I have not had to use that tactic for a long time but increasingly in my situation at the moment I may need to resort to such drastic measures. I think worship is about discipline and if we have no self discipline others will see that. Other signs of lack of self discipline are checking mobile phones for text messages or standing there like you really don't want to be there.

I would rather have half of a band that was serious than a full band that was fragmented.

There is a great transformation that occured in the life of Paul as he changed from a servant of Christ to a bondservant of Christ. A bond servant is a slave that has been freed and chooses to stay. In any case the catalyst has been freedom. 1 Cor. 7:23 says "You are bought with a price so don't be a servant of MEN." The law produces slaves of men. Grace produces sons and daughters of the ONLY king. Joint heirs, partners, inheritors of all God has. Jesus told His crew that they were going to relate to Him in a different way after the cross... No longer servants but friends. At the end of the day the servant collects his pay and goes home while the sons and daughters sit around the table and discuss the family business. I said all that to say this. A dependant servant will always complain about management which produces strife. The family seeks to resolve issues (like yourself). If you have a servant mentality on the platform it produces strife and strife must be kept off the platform at all costs.

Sometimes I do feel, if only people can be more understanding of what God desires of them, in respect to serving Him, we will be in places of His glory like never before.
But I guess, satan is not pleased when we praise God and so he brings up all these issues.

I wonder if we need to think a bit differently about these things? Is there another way of looking at being a team that facilitates the music programme of a church gathering?

Those who lead in worship--yes everyone on the team are worship leaders--need to be and become people of excellence. The team leader needs to establish that leading a people into worship is an awesome responsibility before God. They are instrumental in bringing the presence of God into the assembly.

If they are tardy and sluggish and not sharp, then they need to be excused from serving, and be encouraged to spend time with the Lord and His Word, and learn from Him if they are truly called to serve Him in that way.

Keeping them blocks those who are willing and eager and able to serve.

I will do that, again, though we have done that before in the past.

I would sit down with her over a cup of coffee and try and understand her situation, the reasons behind the lateness and look at ways to help make her role in the team work. I think the main thing is to build a team on good relationships and honesty. Sometimes people might be struggling to fit into the parameters we set for a team. It might be we need to be more flexible in the way we run the team.

There is a sister on the worship team, she used to sing together with us before she had her baby, even until just before the baby was born she used to sing, but then after the birth of her baby she lay off for 9 months and then she came back and told me that she wanted to start singing again. I said ok.
One week she came early and sang with us, the next week she turned up after the worship had started, at the end of the worship she just said "sorry I could not come". Then the next two weeks she came on time, and then she came late again but this time she did not say anything, the following sunday again she came after we had started the worship.

This lateness has been a problem with her in the past, then it settled down, but then now it has resurfaced again.


In this case what do you suggest I do?

Well, there you have it. Frank Sinatra lugged in the gear, and Gerald Coates put out the chairs. What an interesting set-up team that would have made.

Yes, those of us with any responsibility must never forget what a privilege it is to serve. Serving others is a great expression of worship. I have worked with many well known preachers over the years but the one that had the most impression on me in my earlier years was Gerald Coates. I was leading worship for a city-wide celebration that he was speaking at in 1978. ( a long time ago!!!) I had heard so much about this speaker and his reputation had gone before him. When I arrived at the venue, I was looking for this important 'man of God'. Gerald was there early and helping the organisers to put out the hundreds of chairs for the event. I had never seen that before. In my previous experiences, preachers never arrived to serve, only to be the 'big man on the platform'. That left such a strong impression with me, that I still remember it after 30 years. A couple of years later my wife and I moved to be part of the church that Gerald was leading. He is still one of my closest friends and we have worked together for 28 years!!

That is a further responsibility for all those involved in a church event. There are lots of practical jobs to be done, if the gathering is to work well. In fact, everyone involved should aim to be as professional as possible - from making the coffee to firing up the multimedia. In his early days, even Frank Sinatra had to carry his gear from the van to the venue - so none of us has any excuse for not helping out!

If we are part of a team, we need to make sure that we are committed to serving the interests of the team and its' members. I remember many years ago when I was leading a church worship team, the musicians would turn up early to unload their gear and set-up. The singers would arrive just in time for the soundcheck, because they had no equipment to set up. I explained to the singers that if they turned up at the same time as the musicians, they could help to carry the equipment in and thus make the job of the whole team easier. It worked. The drummer no longer spent 15 minutes emptying her car of all the drums and associated bits and pieces. There were several people to help, meaning that the car was unloaded quickly, set up was quicker and the drummer was not tired from lugging all the equipment on her own. We need to create a good sense of teamwork.

There are many reasons why people don't turn up for church on time - or even miss it completely. People who work in the arts, media and sport may have been working late the day before, or even on the Sunday morning. If you have a Monday deadline, usually that means working on a Sunday. Normally, church culture isn't flexible about that. But if the reason is clubbing on the Saturday night, or just being plain lazy, then that's another issue. Find out the reasons behind the inconsistency and go from there. But if we are meant to be playing a key part in a gathering, then we need to act professionally and responsibly.

Often I have come across people on the worship team who like to sing but are not consistent with the team. Like they show up for two sundays on time for worship and then the next sunday they show up late and this goes on and on. How do you deal with someone like this without hurting the person.